59 - Christians Against Christian Therapy Part II

This series began with a review of the amicus briefs to the US Supreme Court filed by numerous Christian leaders. In this edition, we will spend more time considering the statement of Joshua Proctor, who joined Gregory Coles and Bill Henson in requesting a ban on exploratory talk therapy in one of those briefs. Proctor describes himself as “a Spiritual Director, LGBT+ Inclusion Consultant, Educator, Podcaster, and Pastor, defining “Inclusion Consultant” as offering “training on LGBT+ inclusion and equity for teams and organizations both in secular and religious spheres.”

Proctor tells of going through therapeutic “attempts as a minor through multiple avenues including talk therapy, prayer ministry, and live-in programs, I was the best-case scenario of a child who truly desired to change their sexual orientation because of their faith.”[1]

The mention of “live-in programs” raises an initial red flag. I’m only aware of one such program involving teens, which was run by John Smid and closed in 2007. Other Christian organizations across the US rejected Smid’s ministry idea, and, to my knowledge, it has not been considered a valid option among any leaders.[2] For Proctor to state that he was involved in more than one “live-in program” is odd. It instantly leaves the impression that he was in a fringe or cultic situation. Or, perhaps he was in some other general residential mental health facility for a time.

The second red flag is found in Proctor’s following sentence: “While encouraged by my parents and initially forced into therapy, I did pursue these attempts with the highest level of personal motivation and cooperation a minor could exhibit.”[3] If one is “forced into therapy” as a minor, the ability to come up with “the highest level of personal motivation” is suspect. One’s inner motivation for pursuing therapy is paramount, and being motivated to please one’s parents is not a solid foundation on which to build in this area of life. This statement made by Proctor is confusing at best. A good counselor will address the reason their client is there and focus on that before continuing. Some counselors will work primarily with parents, empowering them to engage in therapeutic interactions with their kids. This builds the relationship between the parents and their child, which in itself is helpful.

A Christian Therapist Responds

Andrew Rodriguez, is a Licensed Professional Counselor and the Director of Integrity Christian Counseling. On Oct. 31, 2025, Rodriguez posted a video titled, “Whose Side Is Side B On? ‘Gay Christians’ Support Banning Therapy for Sexuality & Gender Identity,” reviewing this and other amicus briefs filed in Chiles v. Salazar. Along with observations similar to the ones I’ve made above, Rodriguez shares insights into what exploratory talk therapy typically involves.

He notes that Proctor does not name his therapist or the locations where he received counseling. Nor does he mention how long he participated in any type of counseling or “prayer ministry.”[4] Then he addresses the adverse outcomes Proctor describes, including “heightened depression and suicidal ideation, beginning around age 16 and continuing through college, including a suicide attempt in my later years of high school. As I entered college at the age of 18 and accepted that my sexual orientation would not change, the shame which had built up from my inability to change led me to risky sexual behavior and drug use through college.”

Rodriguez replies:

I actually am genuinely sorry to read that this was his experience. I am skeptical, however, that it’s directly due to his therapy, though. I’ve had clients who come to me who are adamant that they must experience a major change in their attractions or else life is intolerable.

I have a current client I’m dealing with who just has this strict expectation. …He said he’s fine if he continues having same sex attraction. But if I don’t experience opposite sex attraction to the same intensity that I experienced same sex attraction, then life is not worth it. It’s intolerable.

Now, generally, I find these cases to be rare, but they do occur. And despite my frequent caution against all-or-nothing thinking or expectations, these clients persist in having this strict standard for an outcome. It’s not because I’m imposing this outcome on them or promoting an outcome to them. They’re coming in with this desired outcome. And a lot of times, what I’m trying to do is ease them into being more accepting of where they’re currently at while still pursuing the potential for change. It’s a delicate balance for clients to get to.[5]

Along with being intrinsically motivated, having realistic expectations is key in this realm of therapy. We don’t know what the Lord will do in our lives, but putting ultimatums on Him (I.e., “Unless you help me to this degree/in this way, I’m not going to follow You or have hope…”) is not a good idea.

Rodriguez continues this train of thought:

…There could be multiple factors for this. Maybe they come from a particularly strict and rejecting community, religious or otherwise, and family. Maybe there’s significant trauma around being bullied for being gender atypical or having the gay label imposed on them by either abusive parents or peers or siblings. Maybe they have a high level of trait anxiety or OCD[6]. I don’t know Joshua, so, I can only speculate.

I can only say that in my counseling and every colleague I know in this field, when we get a new client, we make no promises about the outcome, and we’re checking on the client’s motivation for seeking change, exploring therapy, and we’re advising them of realistic outcomes. So the goals are mutually agreed upon between both client and therapist. I also want to be seeing how committed the person is to his values, his or her values, and self-acceptance regardless of whether or not the feelings change, the so-called “sexual orientation” changes.

Do you still have self-acceptance? Are you still motivated to pursue or maintain chastity whether or not your sexual feelings change? I have some clients who their whole adherence to chastity is contingent on whether or not their attractions change, and that’s pretty problematic. That makes it very difficult to navigate. It puts a huge burden on me, like, “Oh, I’ve got to make sure that they change now or else I’m going to be responsible for them going into the gay life or being miserable forever.” I constantly have to remind them, “All right, we can only see what’s possible. You have to be willing to accept whatever outcome there may be.”

The last thing I’m doing is making some lofty promise about, well, if you just stick to this program, you stick to our treatment plan, you will experience the change you want to have. I don’t know a single therapist who’s like that. I highly doubt that his therapist, trained by Nicolosi, was saying that sort of stuff to him.[7]

Are you willing to pursue or maintain living out the Christian sexual ethic, whether or not your sexual feelings change? Are you willing to trust your life, including your affections, to Jesus? These are challenging questions for everyone to consider. Are you going to idolize sex or put your confidence in the Lord?

Readers of R4R will recall that we’ve previously explored how setting this type of ultimatum can hamstring one’s faith.[8] In The Meaning of Change and What Constitutes Meaningful Change - Part I, we learned how rare it is to be 100% attracted to the same sex in the first place, and the framework of faith that helped me start with a solid foundation in seeking counseling. We saw how making false assumptions about the future contributes to the creation of exclusive, “celibate partnerships” in Bad Idea Jeans – A Paper on Celibate Partnerships, Part V: Family Confusion. And in Good Idea Jeans – Stepping into God’s Wardrobe, Part II, Actively Waiting on the Lord, we read this excellent reminder from Dr. Timothy Keller:

Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”- yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. James 4:13-16

When things go wrong, we think of our anger, our despair, we think of our worry and our fear as feelings we can’t help. But this is saying those feelings arise from an assumption, out of an assumption of your own omniscience.

There’s an assumed omniscience. “Oh! This is awful!”

“What? Why?”

“Because XYZ is not happening, and that will be a disaster if XYZ doesn’t happen!”

“Oh, you know, huh? You know that XYZ has to happen for life to have meaning…”.

How do you know? You don’t know! You’re upset, but you don’t know. Please lay down the melancholy burden of assumed omniscience. It’s such a relief.

Even the wisest people do not see all ends. When you are just freaking out because this has got to happen, that means you think you know. But you’re not omniscient, and your freaking out is coming from your certainty that you know. You don’t know. Be humble. The deliberate act of humility, that’s one way to be patient.

A second false assumption to note here is that people who happen to experience temptations for the same sex can presume that this is more difficult to deal with than any other temptation one could experience. This is not true. Sadly, in a fallen world, there is plenty of heartbreak to go around. Some people will never experience the freedom and comfort this side of heaven that those reading this in the West take for granted every day. We cannot surmise that our pain is unique in all the universe, beyond what any other person would endure. The Lord promises us a way out of any temptation:

“No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. And God is faithful; He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, He will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.” I Cor. 10:13

We grow in maturity when we trust Him enough to “lay down the melancholy burden of assumed omniscience.” Keller talks about waiting on the Lord patiently, perspectively, obediently, God-centrically, and joyfully. There is joy indeed found in risking it all on Jesus.

[1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24-539/370617/20250825134315970_Chiles%20v%20Salazar%20Brief%20of%20Amici%20Curiae%20Gregory%20Coles%20Joshua%20Proctor%20and%20Bill%20Henson.pdf, pg 7

[2] Whenever a story appears in the media about a “conversion therapy camp,” I have had other Christian leaders in ministry to those with unwanted same sex attractions or confusion about their gender contact me to see if I’m aware of such a program. I’ve conducted numerous searches through a variety of denominations or camp listings for over a decade and have come up with nothing. There may be live-in camps or programs still out there, but they are not in the Christian mainstream.

[3] https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24-539/370617/20250825134315970_Chiles%20v%20Salazar%20Brief%20of%20Amici%20Curiae%20Gregory%20Coles%20Joshua%20Proctor%20and%20Bill%20Henson.pdf, pg 7

[4] On the first night of the support group meeting at Harvest USA, about thirty women were present. I was surprised to see so many, as this was not conducive to any type of small group setting. The next week, about 12 women came, followed by 8 the week after. When I asked the group leader about this, she said it happens every year. They open the group to those who say they want to come, and many arrive at the first meeting, then attendance significantly drops off. It is not fair to say that you’ve tried counseling without giving it a reasonable amount of time.

[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgGHSSvJKGc

[6] Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

[7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgGHSSvJKGc

[8] See: The Meaning of Change and What Constitutes Meaningful Change – Part I, Feb 29, 2024

Bad Idea Jeans – A Paper on Celibate Partnerships, Part V Family Confusion, Jul 27, 2023

Good Idea Jeans – Stepping into God’s Wardrobe, Part II Actively Waiting on the Lord, Aug 15, 2023